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Users losing keys
02-03-2009, 07:07 AM
Post: #21
Users losing keys
Read ^ghost^'s post, review the cache and see for yourself. I'm not going over it again, it's plain to see.
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02-03-2009, 08:10 AM
Post: #22
Users losing keys
If my pulses are deleted for ever that sucks but I will have to live with it, but what I absolutely don't like or agree with, the day that they were deleted, the posts that would incriminate us were also deleted from the forums. I had no chance to see what would be the reason for me being flagged as a cheater.

Its unfortunate people would think I am a cheater. I assure you I am NOT a cheater, every single key I've pulsed since I started to join Whatpulse some years ago, has been typed by me and me alone!

I still would very much like to see which pulses you would have marked as cheated. I think I'd have a right to that before we start flaming and blaming people. If this was a server error, that's a darn shame. If it was intentionally deleted I feel I have a right to know why. Don't worry I am not mad, I just don't like to be called a liar, I'm sure you'd feel the same. Wink

http://wp.osphp.net/serve/sig.png?usr=10...02-102-102
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02-03-2009, 08:32 AM
Post: #23
Users losing keys
bobL Wrote:Read ^ghost^'s post, review the cache and see for yourself. I'm not going over it again, it's plain to see.

Nope, they were pulsed with different profiles at a time, but on the site
you can't see that because the site calculates the AVKPS since the last pulse not since the last pulse with that profile. If you pulse 1000 keys with profile 1 and 1000 keys with profile 2 after 1 second you'll get 1000 AVKPS at the second pulse. You should try it yourself instead of saying things that aren't true. We aren't cheaters so please don't do things if you even can't see them Confused
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02-03-2009, 10:27 AM
Post: #24
Users losing keys
bobL Wrote:The pulses that were deleted were deleted because they were pulsed from the same profile at near-identical times, as is shown by Google Cache.

^ghost^'s post was exactly right, thank you for confirming that. Wink

Maybe you should look better bobL. What ^ghost^ say's doesn't go up.
I think this is a human input error. Maybe it's time to show the profile that pulsed on the page. Makes it more clear then it is now...

AVK on last 10 pulses is calculated on the pulse before it. Not from the same profile.
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02-03-2009, 12:10 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2009 06:44 PM by X-Kal.)
Post: #25
Users losing keys
I would like to jump into this discussion by saying that deleting keys based on High AvKPS is an erroneous way of deleting members.
Take my own profile for example:
http://whatpulse.org/stats/users/226153/
My last pulse shows as having an AvKPS of 50, whereas my other ones are ~1 (or whereabouts).
The last AvKPS of 50 is clearly calculated on means of the last pulse, which is not on the same profile (as you can see from my profile).
AvKPS is calculated here based on 26 minutes * 60 seconds = 1560. Then we add in the pulse of 78,847 keys, divide this by 1560 and you get: ~50.

Another example: my pulse 7 and 8 show an AvKPS of 3403, which it's because the AvKPS is based on the previous pulse OVERALL. Not on the previous pulse of the SAME profile.

I think you guys should add a column "Profile" to the pulses table and calculate AvKPS based on the last pulse from the same profile, not the last overall pulse.
This will avoid these kind of "yes/no" discussions and a lot more clarity.
Isn't that the whole point of the profiles?
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02-03-2009, 01:40 PM
Post: #26
Users losing keys
bReChThOu Wrote:Nope, they were pulsed with different profiles at a time, but on the site
you can't see that because the site calculates the AVKPS since the last pulse not since the last pulse with that profile. [...] You should try it yourself instead of saying things that aren't true. We aren't cheaters so please don't do things if you even can't see them Confused

LMD Wrote:Maybe you should look better bobL. What ^ghost^ say's doesn't go up.

The pulse dates on bReChThOu's profiles were weeks apart, as ghost said. This part of it has nothing to do with the AvKPS calculations and is the reason the pulses were deleted.

LMD Wrote:think this is a human input error. Maybe it's time to show the profile that pulsed on the page. Makes it more clear then it is now...

Updates will be made to the website, however nothing will fix this as it comes down to what was pulsed and when it was pulsed, not faulty calculations.

Ben.Hahlen Wrote:I think you guys should add a column "Profile" to the pulses table and calculate AvKPS based on the last pulse from the same profile, not the last overall pulse.
This will avoid these kind of "yes/no" discussions and a lot more clarity.
Isn't that the whole point of the profiles?

Again, fixing the calculations will not erode the issue. The Profile's main purpose is so WhatPulse can be run on multiple computers at the same time without errors...
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02-03-2009, 01:49 PM
Post: #27
Users losing keys
drakenpuppy Wrote:If my pulses are deleted for ever that sucks but I will have to live with it, but what I absolutely don't like or agree with, the day that they were deleted, the posts that would incriminate us were also deleted from the forums. I had no chance to see what would be the reason for me being flagged as a cheater.

Its unfortunate people would think I am a cheater. I assure you I am NOT a cheater, every single key I've pulsed since I started to join Whatpulse some years ago, has been typed by me and me alone!

I still would very much like to see which pulses you would have marked as cheated. I think I'd have a right to that before we start flaming and blaming people. If this was a server error, that's a darn shame. If it was intentionally deleted I feel I have a right to know why. Don't worry I am not mad, I just don't like to be called a liar, I'm sure you'd feel the same. Wink

Said posts are deleted as the issue is taken care of. They are not there as a lasting reminder that people think you are a cheater. To keep the thread manageable, they have to be deleted. It's not a conspiracy to delete legitimate pulses with no traceable record, don't worry.

I'm certainly not calling you a liar and nor am I trying to start a flame war (and whoever does will just get their posts deleted Tongue) and yes, I would feel pretty bummed if my legitimate pulses were removed. I haven't seen a record of your pulses and what ones are removed, however in the case of bReChThOu, it is quite clear that something was illegitimate, so much so that someone reported his pulses and another person agreed and deleted them. Sure, juries get things wrong and convict the wrong people sometimes, but the evidence against bReChThOu is compelling. Again, for you I have no clue what happened.

At the moment, AFAIK, there is no way to retrieve nor review what pulses were deleted, unless you're lucky enough to have a Google Cache file.

Please know that this is an isolated incident and hasn't seemed to occur for anyone else except for a few members of your team. Teams often have groups of hackers, bug abusers or illegitimate pulsers (*looks at LUE*), so when something this isolated happens, it's not hard to understand why it doesn't help your case. Again, I am not calling you cheaters, I'm just trying to shed some light over why this happened.
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02-03-2009, 02:02 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2009 06:47 PM by X-Kal.)
Post: #28
Users losing keys
Just trying to help solving this problem:
As you can see in the google cache of bReChThOu's profile:
http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:CM_j...be&strip=0
he pulsed pulse #4 with his Laptop profile because the pulse date is exactly the same.
Then pulse #3 is pulsed with his Main profile because this profile is the only profile that has a last pulse date that's after the date of pulse #3.
Besides that, there's no way pulse #3 was pulsed with another profile, because he has no other profile with that number of keys.

You guys should really add the column "profile" to the last pulse table, because now you can't even proof that the pulses were from the same profile, which they are obviously not.
"Innocent Until Proven Guilty" Smile
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02-03-2009, 02:04 PM
Post: #29
Users losing keys
bobL Wrote:The pulse dates on bReChThOu's profiles were weeks apart, as ghost said. This part of it has nothing to do with the AvKPS calculations and is the reason the pulses were deleted.
That is so not true... And proves that you haven't looked at the cache he provided.
The pulses that were deleted from bReChThOu's profile were from 2008/12/05 18:16:05 and 2008/10/11 11:58:35.
In the cache, it shows:
Quote:Pulsed under Windows 3 2008/12/05 18:16:05 1,036,381 402,946 32.72 144.83 56.31
Pulsed under Windows 4 2008/12/05 16:16:49 463,619 126,092 13.07 0.11 0.03
They are two pulses, on the same date, and two hours apart.
Let's do a simple calculation now:
2 hours = 120 minutes = 7200 seconds.
1,036,381 / 7200 = ~144

Quote:Pulsed under Windows 7 2008/10/11 11:58:35 301,777 80,424 9.36 37722.13 10053
Pulsed under Windows 8 2008/10/11 11:58:27 348,846 218,434 17.82 0.11 0.07
His other deleted pulse. 8 seconds apart. No way to know from what profile they came. Guess what 301,777 / 8 makes...

Now, please show me HOW you (or the anti-cheater team, for that matter) know that the pulses were made from the same profile...

Now, I'm gonna take two pulses from my own profile:
Quote:Pulsed under Windows 7 2008/12/21 20:25:35 34,030 16,687 1.85 3403 1668.7
Pulsed under Windows 8 2008/12/21 20:25:25 96,870 38,036 5.51 0.09 0.03
These pulses were made 10 seconds apart. So if anyone would want to screw with me, they'd report me know to the anti-cheater team, and I would lose my second pulse as well due to high AvKPS, whilst these pulses were made from a different profile. Again, there is no way to know that they were made from different profiles.

bobL Wrote:Updates will be made to the website, however nothing will fix this as it comes down to what was pulsed and when it was pulsed, not faulty calculations.

Again, fixing the calculations will not erode the issue. The Profile's main purpose is so WhatPulse can be run on multiple computers at the same time without errors...
Fixing calculations will erode the issue imho, as people will not get reported based on "false" high AvKPS. You will see it profile-wise, not overall.

bobL Wrote:Said posts are deleted as the issue is taken care of. They are not there as a lasting reminder that people think you are a cheater. To keep the thread manageable, they have to be deleted. It's not a conspiracy to delete legitimate pulses with no traceable record, don't worry.

I'm certainly not calling you a liar and nor am I trying to start a flame war (and whoever does will just get their posts deleted Tongue) and yes, I would feel pretty bummed if my legitimate pulses were removed. I haven't seen a record of your pulses and what ones are removed, however in the case of bReChThOu, it is quite clear that something was illegitimate, so much so that someone reported his pulses and another person agreed and deleted them. Sure, juries get things wrong and convict the wrong people sometimes, but the evidence against bReChThOu is compelling. Again, for you I have no clue what happened.

At the moment, AFAIK, there is no way to retrieve nor review what pulses were deleted, unless you're lucky enough to have a Google Cache file.

Please know that this is an isolated incident and hasn't seemed to occur for anyone else except for a few members of your team. Teams often have groups of hackers, bug abusers or illegitimate pulsers (*looks at LUE*), so when something this isolated happens, it's not hard to understand why it doesn't help your case. Again, I am not calling you cheaters, I'm just trying to shed some light over why this happened.
I do not want to get into a flaming issue whatsoever either, but imho, you are not providing any clarity or light over why this happened. To me, it is also not clear WHY bReChThOu's pulses were deleted. I don't think the evidence adds up...

Just for the fun of it: pulse two of your profiles with ~10k keys about 10 secs apart and see what happens to your AvKPS...
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02-03-2009, 02:17 PM
Post: #30
Users losing keys
bobL Wrote:The pulse dates on bReChThOu's profiles were weeks..

7 2008/10/11 11:58:35 301,777 80,424 9.36 37722.13 10053
Pulsed under Windows
8 2008/10/11 11:58:27 348,846 218,434 17.82 0.11 0.07


Lol look, 8 seconds after each other isn't "weeks" just look better please..
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